A GENEALOGY OF THE SURNAME BAGBY
For several years, I have been researching the origin of the Bagby surname, and it is with some hesitation that I write about this subject. I do not claim to possess all knowledge concerning the origin of the Bagby surname. Quite the contrary, I have many questions.
There was a time when every Bagby report, including those online, which would also have included what is now my own Register Report of James Bagby, began something like this:
John Bagby, born 1570 in Scotland. Wife, Mary Unknown, of Welch descent. They had 10 children.
Some reports still begin in that manner. I changed my report a couple of years ago when I compared the “Tree” of Dr. Alfred Paul Bagby, D.D. and his “Outline” in his book, “King and Queen County Virginia”. Many Bagby researchers have studied the "Tree" drawn by Dr. Alfred Paul Bagby, D.D. and concluded that James, Isham, William and John are brothers. I came to a totally different conclusion. James Bagby is the trunk of the Rev. Dr. Alfred Paul Bagby, D.D.'s tree. If Isham, William and John were brothers to James, the trunk would not be James Bagby, but it would be another Bagby with James as a limb of the tree just as Isham, William and John are limbs of the tree.
There is also "The Chart" or "Outline" in the book "King and Queen County Virginia by Dr. Alfred Paul Bagby, D.D., which is a bit confusing, but has enough similarity in the beginning to support my opinion of the "Tree". Pages 322-323, read exactly as below, beginning with James Bagby, and with absolutely no mention of who the father of James, Isom [Isham], and William was.
James [1], Jamestown [1628].
Isom [Isham] [1], Jamestown.
William [1], Jamestown.
William [1]; Robert [2], b. 1740 [Kentucky branch]
James [1]; John [2]; John [3], m. Morris [Louisa branch]
John [2]; Richard [3], m. Jeffries; George [4]; Mary [4], m. Harwood; John [4], m. Courtney; Richard [4], m. Fleet; Baylor [4]; Travis [4], m. Kidd; Susan [4], m. Haynes
Major Thomas [3]; George [4], m. Virginia Evans; Dr. Geo. W. [Moziz Addums] [5], m. Chamberlane; Ellen [5], m. Matthews
John [4]; Richard Hugh, D.D. [5], m. Motley; Dr. John [6], m. Fleet; Richard Hugh, Jr. [6], m. Cauthorne, Luther [6], m. Johnson; Betty [6], m. Ryland; Emma [6], m. Carlton; Laura [6], m. Aderholt; Hannah [6]; Virginia [6], m. W.F. Bagby, county clerk
In addition, while researching the Bagby name on the Internet in recent months, I kept observing that I could not find any definite link between Scotland and the Bagby surname. As I researched, I kept marking sites in my favorites because I became more and more curious as to why I could not find a Bagby and Scotland together.
This is from The Surnames of Scotland, Their Origin, Meaning, and History
by George F. Black, Ph.D.,
The New York Public Library:
"BEGBIE. This surname is most probably derived from the lands of Begbie or Baikbie in the constabulary of Haddington. There is also a village named Baikbie in the parish of Roberton, but as the surname is mainly confined to the Lothians the former seems the most likely place of its origin. John Baikbie, tenant in Drumhillis, and William Baikbie in Drem, were cited before the Privy Council in 1566 (RPC., I, p.444), Baigbie 1609."
RPC refers to Records of the Privy Council.
THE BRISTOL BEGBIES - INTRODUCTION
Textbooks suggest that Begbie is a corruption of "Becca's By" meaning Becca's house or homestead and is thus may be of Scandinavian extraction. The same suffix also appears in, eg, Whitby.
I am not clear of the evidence for this conclusion, but the name is also spelled Begbey and I have found at least one instance of a person using both spellings. In any event, the Mormons in their IGI list Begbie/Begbey along with Bagby, Bigby, and Bugby as being spellings subject to interchange. These latter names seem to be much older in England than Begbie and so it may be that this one unusual surname has more than one origin. This is particularly true of Devon where the name (almost always spelt Begbey) goes back to at least 1725, but Bagby etc., can be found in the 1600s.
The name is most common in Scotland, especially around Mid-Eastlothian, suggesting this is the true source of the family, but by the 1700s the name appears in London where about 1795, James Begbie was born. I know nothing of his early life or parents, but by 1819 he had moved to Bristol and married. The following is the story of his descendants and it is split into three parts.
From the Atlanta Constitution, July 2, 1989
Know Your Name
By John C. Downing (deceased, this was his last column)
Bagbey/Bagby
The surnames Bagbey and Bagby are English place names acquired from once having lived at a place in the North Riding of Yorkshire, spelled Baghebi in the 1066 Domesday Book, Baggaby around 1160, Baggebi in 1280 and now Bagby. The meaning is "Baggi's By" Baggi was an Old Norse personal name of uncertain meaning and it is found compounded with other words among the Danish settlements in England.
No instances of individuals were found m the available early records. This does not mean that the surname did not exist at an early date - only the owner(s) escaped the tax collector or being hailed into court. The word By denotes a secondary settlement under the control of the older homestead, probably named for its founder.
In Virginia, John Bagby was a headright in a 1636 James City County land grant and James Bagby was a headright in a 1639 Charles City County land grant. Peter Bagby, or Bagly, sold 250 acres in Isle of Wight County in 1666. Robert Bagby held land in New Kent County prior to 1671 and was granted 80 acres there in 1673. In 1704, Robert Bagby paid the rent on his 350-acre grant in King William County, and Thomas Bagby paid the rent on his 180 acre grant in James City County.
Lieutenant James Bagby served in our Revolutionary Army.
In North Carolina, David Bagby and William Bagby were property taxpayers in Halifax County in 1785.
The 1790 U.S. Census lists families of Bagbys in Georgia (Reconstructed), North Carolina and Virginia.
The Parish Church of St. Mary
Bagby village has just one winding street, but it contains several picturesque features. Old houses are found here, some dating back to Tudor times. In the crofts, on either side of the road, are quite extensive foundations, and there are vestiges of moated sites, but whether they indicate an ancient hall or manor house, or the foundations of the leper hospital which existed in the area in the Middle Ages, is not know for sure.
Bagby is filled with the air of antiquity, as its Danish place name indicates. Certainly it pre-dates Domesday and it had a priest to look after the spiritual welfare of its inhabitants when the surrounding villages (not even Thirsk) were possessed of one. Kirby Knowle, some six miles away, now its head, was at that ancient time one of its dependencies. Doubtless, it was a place of some importance, but its early history is lost in the mists of the past.
The church of Bagby, unique in its style of architecture and its peculiar internal arrangement, stands on the north side of the village. The church is not mentioned in Domesday, but it is of very ancient origin and has undergone several restorations.
Tradition says that during the reign of Henry II, some 300 soldiers were stationed at Bagby to guard the district from outlaws and robbers. The outlaws seem to have found their master in Henry II, and dispersed leaving Bagby in peace. This indicates how important Bagby was at that time. The outlaws made the Hambletons their place of refuge, and swooped down on the Normans who lived on the lower ground. The same grounds as held the original Anglo-Danish inhabitants, who had been despoiled of their lands and from being owners of the soil had, in many instances, become serfs to the Norman oppressors.
Research submitted by: Commander William Boyle Bagbey
Notice that the first article is full of wording like, “The surname is most probably derived…”, “…most likely it’s place of origin.”, “Textbooks suggest…”, “I am not clear of the evidence…”, “…suggesting the true source of the family.”….but then the article states without a doubt that the Bagby name was clearly in England in 1600. The second article on that page places the Bagby surname in England, as does the third article.
Then, I re-read the article written by Dr. Harry Ashby Bagby, D.D., which is now on this web site under the notes of Dr. Harry Ashby Bagby, D.D. Note: This article was found among papers of my husband’s Grandfather, John Robert Bagby of Mountain View, Arkansas. I have yet to find the book from which the article was copied, but the page numbers are 95-99.
You’ll notice the first line that says, “The Bagbys are of Scotch blood, chiefly.”
Chiefly. What does that mean? It could mean any number of things, including the fact that he realized that no family is entirely made up of one ethnic group. There could also be another reason for his wording. Dr. Harry Ashby Bagby, D.D. was born in 1863. His father was born in 1836 and his grandfather was born in 1791. What’s my point? Well, many of us have had the privilege of listening to the accounts of history from our grandfathers. This family lived in Virginia, a state that The Revolutionary War deeply affected. I cannot see any person of that day writing an article and saying, “The Bagbys are of British blood.” Even in our own society today there are states where the Civil War still deeply affects the thinking of some people.
After reading all of this research, observing every detail, I began to research on the Internet and found this web site:
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/NRY/Kirbyknowle/Kirbyknowle90.html
That research places Bagby Village in England as early as 1086 A.D.
To view a map and some photos of the area as it is today, you can go to this URL:
http://www.yorkshirebandb.co.uk/north-yorkshire/the-poplars/the-poplars.html
If you’d like to delve further into it, here’s another interesting site:
http://www.thenortheast.fsnet.co.uk/
I still hadn’t given up on Scotland in my research though. I began to think in terms of finding records of Bagbys who had come to America from Scotland and I found sites that contained passenger lists on this web site:
http://www.immigrantships.net/
Not one Bagby.
I searched this site:
http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/institutes/sassi/spns/
Not one Bagby.
I searched this site:
http://www.stairchurch.homestead.com/
Not one Bagby.
I found the sites that so many of you are aware of, such as Bagby Airfield in Bagby, England:
If you’d like to see more maps on Bagby, England, you can go to these sites:
So, what are we to conclude. I cannot find anything Bagby in Scotland, but I can find much of Bagby in England. What then is the origin of the surname Bagby. One could conclude that it is of English origin and not Scottish origin. One could conclude that we may never know for certain. One could conclude that it matters not.
I personally believe that the Bagby name is of English origin. In February 2003, I posted a message on the Bagby Rootsweb Board that contains most of this information and there was further discussion from Bagby researchers.
Tom Smith posted the following in an email to the Bagby Rootsweb List dated February 13, 2003:
I don't mean to take issue with those who see the Bagby family as coming originally from Scotland, but I found a record of two Bagby individuals who were living in Norwich which is a town about 111 miles northeast of London.
The following information was taken from the book Index to Wills Proved in the Consistory Court of Norwich and Now Preserved in the District Probate Registry at Norwich 1370-1550 and Wills Among the Norwich Enrolled Deeds 1286-1508, (found in Newbury Library in Chicago), ed. by M. A. Farrow, London, The British Record Society, 1945:
"The episcopal jurisdiction of the See of Norwich extended over Norfolk, Suffolk, and a part of Cambridgeshire, and comprised four archdeaconries, viz. Norwich, Norfolk, Suffolk, and Sudbury." (p. ix)
[The following entries for BAGBY are listed:]
"1504, Bagby, Baggby, John, rector of Leryngsett .... [address] 120, 121 Ryxe." (p. 21)
"1471, Bagby, William, Holt Market .... [address] 232 Jekkys." (p. 21)
Major Walter Moncure Ryland, III, who passed from this life on March 5, 2003, posted to the Bagby Rootsweb List on February 5, 2003:
Sherri,
I think you may be onto something. The parish registers transcribed in the IGI have scads of Bagbys in England but only a handful from Scotland. The earliest Scots entry is an unnamed female Bagbey b 17 Aug 1786 to a John Bagbie. There are lots earlier in England. Of course the IGI also has the mythical John Bagby that you have pretty well debunked and designated as "Unknown," but I am looking only at the transcriptions of the actual records.
This page about the Baggett family says Bagby originated in the North Riding of Yorkshire.
That page cites etymological sources for the word origins. I think others making the same claim might be located via a websearch.
Once in a while we all may need to back up a step or two and take a good fresh look at what we have "always known."
Walter Ryland
I'll close with this last observation. I have never seen any documentation for a John Bagby, born 1570 in Scotland. The only place I have ever seen such a John Bagby mentioned is in genealogy reports on the Internet and no source is given, and in the research known as [Creasy], as quoted below:
For what it is worth, an extract from a letter written by Mr. John C. Bagby of Rushville, Illinois to Dr. George K. Bagby, May 18, 1894 is quoted, "John Bagby married a Welsh woman. Eight or ten children were born to them in Wales. All moved to America. One son John Bagby married a Miss Morriss, a sister of Dr. Morriss of Richmond, VA, in Louisa Co., VA and their children all married in Louisa Co.," In this letter Mr. Bagby says, "The sons of the Scotchman John Bagby or as he spelled it "Begbie" were all born in Wales and were scattered over Louisa, King and Queen, Prince William, Amelia and several other counties east and west of the James River, some as far down as Danville, Virginia. We cannot give any written record beyond our great-grandfather [Louisa County, Virginia]. John Bagby, so called to distinguish him from a cousin John Bagby of King & Queen County, Virginia".
You'll notice that even the researchers who compiled what we refer to as [Creasy] could not find documentation to support John Bagby, b. 1570.
- Sherri Schäefer Bagby
- October 2003
Note: More information about the origin of the Bagby surname will be added from the research of Pleasant H. "Plez" Bagby.